Trends to be concerned about

29 Comments

• Aqeel

  July 11, 2008
  6:45 pm

  It is plagiarism that depresses me the most. It has become tremendously easy for people to copy content, design and ideas which is damaging our sense of originality.

  I have no clue how to fix this. Policing people is not a solution in my opinion.
• ob

  July 11, 2008
  7:14 pm

  Aqeel, I agree with you somewhat.

  Copying someone’s content and publishing it as their own is wrong and very damaging. But if you see an idea that is worth implementing back home than do it. Ideas are easy to copy but its the execution that will make it success or failure for you.

  The biggest trend that bothers me is the lack of thinking, lack of attitude towards solving problems rather I have seen ppl around me just give up when they smell failure..

  The thing is that we are not even taking ideas that are well established in other places of the world and implementing it back home.. we need more startups like lootmaar.com, amaana etc.. we need more ppl like Osama, Abbas Khan, Ashraf Kapadia, Zafar Khan, Jawwad and many others that I am sure i am missing…

  sorry if i went off-topic.. needed to rant this morning..
• Kursed

  July 11, 2008
  8:07 pm

  And not to mention, the trend of favoring quantity over quality. We really need to do away, with that attitude.
• Obi Wan Kenobi

  July 11, 2008
  9:55 pm

  Open source sucks big time, there is no quality in their products and people expect us to lower our license fees to compete with them. All the linux initial code was stolen from Windows initial code (Yeah once windows was open source). Where is mySql running except porn sites, blogs and the sites which don’t generate any revenue. .
• Haris Khan

  July 11, 2008
  10:35 pm

  One of my biggest concern is the quality of user generated content. Its already mentioned in few blogs that after YouTube the world was expecting some kind of creative bang but instead we are still seeing alot of useless videos of cats or self promotion.

  Its very alarming that the younger generation is seriously consuming all this useless material and they are growing with a notion that maybe this is what we call “creative” work. Its evident by just having a look at “Top Videos” on Youtube and you will realize what strange content is getting million of views.
• Sohail Abid

  July 11, 2008
  10:36 pm

  @ Obi-Wan Kenobi

  1. “All the linux initial code was stolen from Windows initial code” — Citations needed?

  2. “Where is mySql running except porn sites, blogs, … …”

  a) I hope you have heard of Facebook. It uses mysql as the database. Reference: Para 4, Line 3

  b) iStockphoto uses mysql. Reference

  c) Meebo, Flickr, Feedburner and a long list goes on.

  d) Are you forgetting all those Small to Medium Enterprises whose business runs on Linux/Apache/Php/Mysql
• Corona

  July 12, 2008
  12:07 pm

  @ Obi Wan Kenobi: Are you out of your mind when you say this “Where is mySql running except porn sites, blogs and the sites which don’t generate any revenue”

  I guess you don’t know facebook. Totally running on open source applications and is a huge huge app. Just think how they will be managing all there data and yes that is all done in none other than Mysql. I guess you haven’t seen this: http://www.mysql.com/customers/customer.php?id=287

  @ the post: I will say, there are not much standards that bother me a lot. Like the concept of OpenID, 1 id for a single person and he can use it anywhere on the internet. User should not be filling the sign up forms on every second site.

  Otherwise, it’s great
• Obi Wan Kenobi

  July 12, 2008
  12:38 pm

  Corona, I have seen extensive performance metrics so I know what I am talking about. Does face book generate revenues ? Have you seen the page load up time for face book ? How much MySQL generated revenues in 2006 before sun acquired them ? Just 40 millions(revenue , not profit) and stupid sun paid 1B to acquire them. Sun stock has gone down 60% since they acquired mysql and they deserve it.

  From 2005 data …

  According to MySQL CEO Marten, six million copies of MySQL are in use, 60,000 people contribute to it (bug reports, patches, etc.), and MySQL AB has 6,000 customers.

  In other words, MySQL derives revenue from only 1 in 1,000 users of open source MySQL. Mickos said that almost all of MySQL AB’s revenue comes from services, such as consulting, training, and support. The company gets very little revenue through license sales, which traditionally represent the vast majority of software company income.”

  We are here to make money , not about feeling good.
• Ady

  July 12, 2008
  5:08 pm

  I don’t know but my gut feeling is the bubble is somewhere in the making …
• Plato

  July 12, 2008
  5:56 pm

  I am concerned about what we as a nation are doing and the direction we are headed in.

  I look around me and I see almost everyone rushing to do a startup. I have hardly seen any innovative idea come out of our country. The startups we do hear about here on G&W and else where, are simply replicating what’s been done to death before in one way or the other. On the other hand, I look at our neighbours like India and Iran and I see that people there are building unique things tailored towards solving the precise problems their respective countries are facing. Not so here. To my eyes, it looks like everyone is in a rush to become famous, to make a few quick bucks, advance their own personal agenda and so on and so forth.

  I hail from one of the best universities in Pakistan and I meet people from other great places here. I see absolutely no spark, no vision in most people. Our computer science majors are happy creating stupid web 2.0 applications and think of themselves as reincarnations of Mark Zuckerberg. I am not saying that this is bad per se. I am simply arguing that there is a lot of stuff to be done. Our defense facilities need significant software systems. We hardly have any firms trying to solve the nations problems by writing software. What is even worse is that we do not realize the multidisciplinary nature of today’s world. Our electrical engineers think that they don’t need to learn software. Our mechanical engineering majors can’t build a simple circuit. Computer Science majors think that they are doing great by learning a couple of languages and competing in stupid competitions happening all over the country. You ask them to build some real software and they have no idea what to build or even what the possibilities are.

  Here’s a couple of facts to pop open our eyes. We have never attained even a half-decent position in ACM’s world programming competitions. We can never even come close to building something like Matlab, a nuclear plant control software, a software for controlling avionics subsystems, and so on and so forth until we change our world view significantly. Everything is connected. We have all got to work together and in the right direction. Only then can we hope for a better tomorrow.

  Osama, I am a big fan of yours but I am sorry to say that I am very disappointed with G&W. Most of the contributing authors lack quality and depth in their articles and really don’t have much to talk about. I especially don’t find the stuff engaging during my coffee time. You are one of the few people who probably know the reality and can help people realize the deep shit we are in. Most of the startups you rave about on your blog are so pathetic that it makes me cry. And I am sure you know it and yet you write about them. Sure it is a great way to attract traffic to G&W but ask yourself if what you are doing is honest.

  My humble apologies if I have said anything inappropriate. In our current state, we simply can’t afford to mimic what’s being done in more affluent countries. We really really need to start solving some real problems now.
• Ammar

  July 13, 2008
  10:22 am

  Spot on Plato. But there are few companies out there which are making some great products but G&W is so obsessed with web2.0 start ups that they never look beyond that e.g. http://www.sensys.com is developing a complete industrial automation solution(yes you can deploy that to control a nuclear plant), may be there are more companies like that but they never get mentioned as they aren’t start ups 2.0.

  My 2 cents.
• Asim Sarfraz

  July 13, 2008
  10:46 am

  I think before this post becomes a lounge that is filled with depression and bitching around on the dismal state of affairs, let’s look at the bright side of things as well. First of all I do not believe it is wise to compare ourselves with other countries like India, and Iran. India and Iran have a totally different dynamics than Pakistan. I don’t see a point in defining Pakistani software market in the local context as well. It’s a global world now, so it makes sense to look at perspective from a global picture. Let’s talk solutions guys, not about the problems. Yes there are challenges but in those challenges we can seek opportunity. If we have a different way of doing things from the rest of us what’s wrong with that? We do have some constraints but we can adapt to those constraints and use them to our advantage can’t we?

  Let’s identify the problems first, and see how get rid of them one by one. If we don’t know what the enemy looks like how can we fight it? In my opinion, from just the IT perspective we have following challenges. I believe all of these challenges can be tackled one by one with the help of mentorship and senior veterans of our industry who have the skills and experience to help others out. We don’t need any outside help.

  So here is a list of key issues in my opinion that we have here :

  Risk taking is difficult in Pakistan especially in the white collar executive strata. The general trend and life styles discourage risk taking. We can’t change this over night so we need to find a way around this how we can help people in startups without too much of a risk. Ironically, living in Pakistan constitutes one of the most riskiest lifestyle if we compare it to the rest of the world, so we can’t say people in Pakistan are fearful of taking risks. So why does everyone freeze when it comes to a startup?
  Pakistan may have its cultural issues, and taboos which discourage business environment in Pakistan, especially when it comes to hi tech business. Surprisingly there is not dearth of entrepreneurial spirit in the lower strata of the society. You can find scores of street entrepreneurs, cloth markets, food items, the list is long. So what happened to technological fields? We can also brainstorm on this why it’s like that when it comes to the so called blue collar jobs, and what’s missing in knowledge workers.
  Very little formal education institutes that teach the art and science of entrepreneurship to the white collar workers. Although the blue collar workers learn the art somehow through experience and family legacy. I think in this area the government needs to take an initiative to prioritize areas which require immediate focus. If government isn’t capable of doing this, I think the professionals can do something about it. Remember that when the entrepreneurs of Sialkot were getting no support in building up a logistics infrastructure, they built an airport of their own. In the long run the whole ecosystem will benefit from it.
  Financial resources are limited. This is not the case anymore by the way. If someone can demonstrate an interesting product that has value, there is no dearth of financial capital.
  Government policies and regulations maybe a problem, but I don’t see it as a major fork in the road. At least in case of IT, we are still lucky that we don’t have a tight noose like many other fields.
  Skilled human resources. We first need to identify what sort of skills we need inculcate in people besides formal education to be able to take on the challenges of a startup. How can we make it fun for the skilled knowledge workers to try new things, even if it has to be a 20% project. Or maybe something as a side project on a weekend. We have to make tech fun for knowledge worker, not just a mere means to get a quick buck.

  I think it’s against the entrepreneurial spirit to give in and lay arms down in face of adversities. I am sure all of the readers of this support who have an entrepreneurial spirit would agree with this. As a first step, some of the real serious people who really care about the IT industry should sit together and layout a roadmap of how they can help the industry take the right steps in the right direction. The recent TiE launch in Islamabad was a good start. We can use that platform to get things going and I am sure Faisal But and his team can be instrumental in getting things going in this regard and helping us out.

  P.S:I beg to disagree that people in Pakistan are incapable of writing software for “building something like Matlab, a nuclear plant control software, a software for controlling avionics subsystems” We have people here who are writing software that is being used in nuclear power plants that conforms to the toughest of all standards in the world : NUPIC & NRC, we have people here writing software of the likes of Matlab. We have people who have created gorillas from scratch that are serving multimillion dollar infrastructure industries around the world. It’s just a matter of looking out for them.
• Haris Khan

  July 13, 2008
  10:47 am

  @Plato

  I agree that we need to move beyond where we are right now but dont forget its always good to start somewhere just like India and China did. If you remember all China did for decades was cheap manufacturing and all India did was just back-end operations. Neither were creative or sexy and nobody thought that oneday with such trivial industries they will have an opportunity to dominate the world.

  So yes we need to do alot .

  Btw @ Amaar can you share more information about Sensys?
• Osama A.

  July 13, 2008
  10:54 am

  @Obi – you’re right taht was out of line so I’ll delete the comment.

  But I’ve been telling this to everyone many many times – GnW is your community… its easy to become a guest writer and actually make the effort to share whatever you know. If you’re worried about “standard” pick up the slack in the community and start writing for it.

  If not that, it takes a minute to drop an email with a URL so that we can know what we need to write about interesting things.

  Its completely out of line to expect us to know things without actually dropping an email with a URL for something interesting without being an active part of the community.

  I dont work for you – I do this because I think its important to share anything intersting happening from this area. If you agree, then get with the community and share.

  In this sense Asim is right that sitting around complaining wont lead anywhere.
• Osama A.

  July 13, 2008
  10:57 am

  I can write about intersting things around me – which might be new media (nothing intersting there), supply chain management (we dont even know what SCM is), and startups (meh – we cover what we hear about).

  Others could write about telecom innovations, industrial automation, management innovation – whatever…

  … no one is stopping anyone from contributing interesting stories from aronud them… but just sitting and complaining about quality doesnt help the community.
• Plato

  July 13, 2008
  12:17 pm

  Thanks everyone for your precious feedback on my earlier comments. I agree with most of you out there. Here are a couple of clarifications that I’d like to offer. Maybe that’d set the perspective right.

  When I said that we are “not capable”, I wasn’t being accurate enough. I don’t mean that our country is full of idiots. On the contrary. I believe that our country is brimming with extremely talent and smart individuals but the only thing stopping us from conquering a couple of worlds is that we don’t exactly have a set direction or objective in mind. Hard work without direction is almost useless. We are still following Adam Smith in that we are doing only what we think is good for ourselves. We need to do what good for us as well as the nation.

  I am not saying that we should replicated India or China per se. Both countries did what eventually led to their economic supremacy. We certainly can’t beat China in manufacturing. So it will be fairly stupid on our part if we try that. We have to find what our needs are at this stage, what our strengths are and where we can get the most optimized results and then work in that direction. All I ask is to not blindly start doing what we are doing right now. And I am definitely not looking to do the sexy. I am looking to do what is much needed at this stage. Sexy or not.

  Then there is the question about what exactly do we do. Realizing the problem is the first step. This is where I call out to all the great people we have in our country to brainstorm together and at the least, guide the new people like myself on how to make “real” difference. Pressing problems need to be addressed first. Pressing problems.

  Sweeping generalizations are false. I certainly made a few. I have to admit that I got emotionally carried away. Forgive me for that. Most of the things I said earlier apply to the vast majority, exceptions aside. I have a treasure trove of facts to support my assertions. Maybe some day I will get around to doing a guest post on G&W. I admit that I have painted a grim picture but how often does one get painted. Richard Feynman was right when he said, “The first principle is to not fool yourself – and you are the easiest person to fool.” I wonder if we are fooling ourselves by reveling in sheer delight of knowing that we are great people with great achievements and are set to conquer the world very soon.

  @Osama – Interesting stories and quality are two separate things. Your analysis is typically sound. Slightly more effort on contributors’ part can significantly improve the quality of posts here. I agree that the community needs to be more engaged and should steer G&W by submitting interesting stories. Osama you can start by telling the myriad Web 2.0 companies you write about that they are wasting their time and energy and should focus on something more useful. (This is flame war material)

  @Ammar – It would be better if SenSys can focus on building a “specific” industrial control system. My two cents.
• Osama A.

  July 13, 2008
  3:38 pm

  Plato, how much of a difference would just blasting their efforts make?

  When I started GnW, Entrepreneurship pretty much didnt exist in the sense it is now – there may be a hundred bad ideas… but atleast people are thinking of looking beyond the “lets start an outsourcing shop”.

  The quality of startups are definitely deteriorating, but you can only take a stance of snubbing them off if you’re in a rich thriving entrepreneurship culture and when you are, in fact, the scarce resource.

  In the valley users or investors are able to push startups beyond terrible products because those are limiting factors that exist in startup success.

  The env in PK is different – investment doesnt exist in the same way it exists in the valley… most people are encouraged to start outsourcing shops leeching from rentacoder or otherwise bootstrap their way without investment.

  Its easy for critics to sit and complain about the quality of a company, but if you (you meaning all critics) really want to do something try to come into this env out of yoru comfort zones abroad and try to set an active example.

  Start entrepreneurship support networks; start teaching people how to start companies within the environment of this country; pool together funds to provide SEED capital; create a factor that can both guarantee or limit success, and THEN you’d have a way of influencing people to make better companies.

  Without these things, all we (as critics) can do is try and strike a balance between completely blasting startup attempts as terrible ideas, or to take a proactive stance at helping that startup fix its biggest issues and improve into something that has a chance.
• Plato

  July 13, 2008
  5:34 pm

  @Osama – I hear you. But why waste time doing something we are not good at? Why not harness our strengths or at least try to build upon them? We don’t have the right environment, the right circumstances, the right support systems, nothing basically. Maybe now is not the right time to do it. The valley is, well, the valley. India is home to several startups. It took them several years to get where they are. We started out late. Why are we trying to run before we can walk? Maybe I am giving up, I don’t know.

  I know Osama you think that outsourcing is the not sexiest of things. Neither do I. But let’s face it. It’s probably more productive in many ways. When I asked you to snub startups, to a small extent, I also meant that you give them the real piece of your mind. Encouraging someone’s efforts is a noble thing to do but only if those efforts will eventually turn into something fruitful. If the somewhat sugar-coated analysis makes some kids waste precious few months/years of their lives, I wonder if that was the right thing to do.

  In any case, I wish the giants among us create a conducive enough environment to enable us to stand on their shoulders and see further than they did.

  P.S. I am looking forward to hearing about the things which you are concerned about
• Haris Khan

  July 13, 2008
  10:19 pm

  @Plato

  Yes, at the moment in Pakistan we dont have the financial instruments to foster startups but again one has has to start somewhere. Thanks to GW we are here today questioning the standards of our industry and trying to improve it, whereas sometime back we didnt even knew if any such culture existed.

  Anyway on a FUNNIER note (dont take it seriously) here are few reasons why I think startups can survive in PK

  - I dont want to generalize but very few of us have ever paid for our tuition fees.
  - We dont have any huge tuition loans like many students in US
  - Culturally, thanks to our parents many of us dont have to worry about our car, house, food and living expenses for a long time after our graduation.

  I know if we remove such cultural safety nets this can encourage people to take more risk.
• Asif

  July 14, 2008
  12:58 am

  Having moved to Pakistan two years ago, I was quite optimistic about Pakistan, economy specially the IT industry.

  However after having interviewed a dozen “software engineers” I’ve concluded that most of them are lame, lack the motivational drive and passion.

  I believe that to have a successful start-up one must have the passion and believe in the product/service you are planning to sell.

  Many people here are just in it for the money and they expect it to be easy money. This can be seen across all sectors, people are more interested in ass-kissing and less interested in actually working and being innovative.

  Mommy & Daddy want their children to study “computers” because CNN says IT is a big business.

  Our creative agencies have 3% creativity and 97% copying skills.

  If one wants a cost-effective web site designed, you’re looking to fish out maximum 15k. However the quality of that site is soo bad that at the end it isn’t worth 15k.

  The fundamental problem in my opinon is the lack of passion. Because most of the students are all in it for the money, they only focus on technologies that they think will make them money… aka facebook.

  Pakistan is unfortunatly a nation full of copycats. Blogging became famous, everyone is blogging. Facebook is cool, so lets make social websites, stop.pk??!??!

  All that happens is copying…

  I’m all for adapting to best-practices and improving it, but just simply copying the concept and expecting it to make you millions is sad.

  So they day, universites start producing students that are passionate, I think that day, you might see a few interesting start-ups.

  P.S. Green&White your website is great.
  Maybe if you are interested you could dedicate a whole section as to what is required in a start-up, sample business plans and a panel of consultants who for free and in their free time will advise those very few who are looking to make a difference.
• Osama A.

  July 14, 2008
  10:22 am

  Asif,

  Good idea – if you’re willing to run / manage such a section consistently we dont mind putting it up
• Asim Sarfraz

  July 14, 2008
  10:57 am

  You don’t really need to be disappointed if you see Pakistani’s copycatting. That’s part of the evolution process. For your information the Japanese have been imitating entrepreneurs for so many decades before they became what they are. Same is the case of China. Check out the history of Korea, Singapore, the list goes on…

  Getting to the state were developed economies are right now is usually a four step process, which in layman’s terms can be labeled as the Do-How stage, the Do-Why Stage, the Know-How stage, and the Know-Why stage. The Do-How stage encompasses the ability to manage operate or just run a system, or an enterprise that essentially has some one else’s brain behind it. It’s nothing original, mostly replication. Once the industry masters this stage it will move onto the Do-Why stage where you are able to run the system without any foreign assistance. After the ecosystem has passed through this evolution stage, you can expect to be at the Know-How stage where you have the ability to adapt a product a system, a design on your own, and you acquire the skill and ability to re-engineer. Finally it’s where you reach the Know-Why stage where you have the stable ecosystem, and support system to generate an “original” and next generation system or product. I think Pakistani IT industry for most part is at stage 1. Some have moved onto stage 2, but I am confident it will someday acquire stage 4 too, where you will see original products and ideas coming forth. So have faith and don’t lose hope.

  If you look at the biological ecosystem, those species who adapt to their environment survive. Rest become extinct. So instead of complaining what Pakistani IT industry “lacks” we can come up with ways to “adapt” I think
• Asif

  July 14, 2008
  12:17 pm

  Osama,

  I would be delighted to run that section. Where should I be e-mailing you this information.

  Asim,

  Agreed, however the japs, singaporeans, koreans and the list goes on copied but improved. They made it cheaper or better.

  people here just copy.
• ob

  July 14, 2008
  7:09 pm

  Asif, I think you have a point but the argument that Asim makes has logic to it as well.

  I am quite young and I am not that experienced so if i say something that is out of line please pardon me for that.

  When I think of Pakistan, when I talk about Pakistan I get excited. My friends look at me as if i am some sort of blind person trying to find something in a dark room.

  People hear about Pakistan they think about violence, political issues, no lights, no water, poor healthcare and so on.. where as i look at it from the point that it is OUR responsibility to fix these issues and not just b*tch about them.

  The world around me is talking about BRIC – Brazil, Russia, India and China.. and I am want it to become PRIC – which will be hard work from all of us.

  Copying ideas isn’t bad. Remember, Ideas are a million its the execution that matters. So if we can copy facebook do it. if we can copy google do it. Its better than sitting at home and not doing anything… once you copy it you will try to run it as a business. The keyword is *try* coz for 10 ppl who try this only 1 will pass and actuaally make it a business.. but that would be worth it.

  I read ideashut twice a week to see what’s cooking but to be honest we all have ideas — some of them are very similar.. but we all lack execution, including me.

  I tell my friends and myself that the best business (in software terms) is one that solves a problem. And I don’t think there is any lack of problems around us in Pakistan. Pick a problem, and try to design a solution around it. That’s what Facebook did, that’s what Google did, yahoo did, microsoft did, orcale did, 37signals did, zoho did, infosys did and the list goes on and on..

  Lets think positive, there is are a lot of negative things around us.
• Osama A.

  July 14, 2008
  11:44 pm

  Ob, nicely said.

  I think one of the great points Plato made in his original comment was that we can think of doing startups within the context of the problems that they aim to solve.

  There are some global contexts, like search or socializing which Google and Facebook are based on, but there are many local contexts that exist too.

  I like the potential of IdeasHut and wish them well but the ideas there are still largely inspired by implementations elsewhere, from within a different context.

  I’d love to see ideas with a localized context – Babar Bhatti’s idea of having a telecom tower real estate auctioning site was brilliant in this sense.

  The second important thing to remember is that while copying is *possible* (anything is) but copying something that relies on Metcalfe’s law for its strength can give the 2nd guy a much greater challenge in front of its success.

  The 2nd guy can still win but it would take “The Innovator’s dilemma” type of mistakes on the part of the 1st person to give room for the next guy in line.

  Two very important things to focus on for startups is (1) where specifically in my entire model is value actually created and (2) What can I do thats so different that it accelerates the creation of that value compared to its rate of growth right now.
• Osama A.

  July 14, 2008
  11:46 pm

  Asif – email me at osama@greenwhite.org and lets try to hash out some specifics of that section
• Asif

  July 15, 2008
  12:11 am

  Ob, I agree with you, but your one in 10,000. Fact is you can perhaps lead, you can have the vision. But if your employees dont understand the vision and all they care about is bling bling… you will just get dragged down into micro-management.

  I had a similar situation when I moved back. I was excited about pakistan for pakistan. But the fact remains that for the next 60 years things are not going to change that much.

  Another word for copying is best-practice. You take that best-practice and you improve on it, localize it.
• ob

  July 15, 2008
  2:18 am

  I agree Asif that our generation has been motivated on bling bling rather than hard-work. Social pressure — from parents, family and friends, has somewhat forced us into that mentality. Get a degree => get high paying job .. the idea of improving society (even if you have high paying job) is being exercised by a minority.

  Our generation’s morale has been damaged. It is ok to give policemen money to get out of a situation. It is considered OK to use an insider source or a source of some political figure to get a job. This has slowly killed away our passion to strive and work hard towards something.

  Its unfortunate that this is happenning in the majority and makes the hard working minority look bad… but the reality is reality. We all know this.

  It will take 60 years of our hardwork to fix pakistan, just like it took years of hardwork from our grandfathers to make this country worth living in.
• Coetshepe

  December 7, 2008
  8:26 pm

  Привет, я думала что это совсем не так происходит:)

  ——————————————-
  Мой блог: http://vyazaniediana.blog.ru/

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