Comments on: Why manage? when you can code! http://greenwhite.org/blog/2008/05/14/why-manage-when-you-can-code/ Coffee Sessions for the Industry! Sat, 12 May 2012 08:39:15 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Who are more capable - Architects or Managers? : Green & White http://greenwhite.org/blog/2008/05/14/why-manage-when-you-can-code/comment-page-1/#comment-148670 Who are more capable - Architects or Managers? : Green & White Wed, 21 Oct 2009 22:26:27 +0000 http://greenwhite.org/2008/05/14/why-manage-when-you-can-code/#comment-148670 [...] content. Now, on with the regular content...One of the threads which branched off the previous post on software management was knowledge and breadth of the ‘manager’ in the technology in [...] [...] content. Now, on with the regular content…One of the threads which branched off the previous post on software management was knowledge and breadth of the ‘manager’ in the technology in [...]

]]> By: Adnan Siddiqi http://greenwhite.org/blog/2008/05/14/why-manage-when-you-can-code/comment-page-1/#comment-11762 Adnan Siddiqi Mon, 19 May 2008 18:11:44 +0000 http://greenwhite.org/2008/05/14/why-manage-when-you-can-code/#comment-11762 yaar Yasser I didn't mean a PM should be technology illetrate but then you can't expect a PM to give you solution that whether one should use jQuery or YUI or Flex. I know in Pakistan having concept of application architect is not common since a PM is considered responsible(read culprit) for everything but in reality I would prefer to have a team of hard core developers(not Coders!),application architect,TL and a PM. yaar Yasser I didn’t mean a PM should be technology illetrate but then you can’t expect a PM to give you solution that whether one should use jQuery or YUI or Flex.

I know in Pakistan having concept of application architect is not common since a PM is considered responsible(read culprit) for everything but in reality I would prefer to have a team of hard core developers(not Coders!),application architect,TL and a PM.

]]> By: Yasser http://greenwhite.org/blog/2008/05/14/why-manage-when-you-can-code/comment-page-1/#comment-11750 Yasser Mon, 19 May 2008 12:39:19 +0000 http://greenwhite.org/2008/05/14/why-manage-when-you-can-code/#comment-11750 Adnan's point is valid and simply boils the discussion down to - who would you rather have as the manager of a team: A) a technical architect B) a manager with no technology know-how but only soft skills at his/her disposal. I am obviously strongly biased towards A) based on my own experience. But i understand and respect the fact that both of you would go for B). It would make for a great study if you guys can find out examples of excellent non-technical managers who successfully led technology projects. I have countless examples of managers in category A). Adnan’s point is valid and simply boils the discussion down to – who would you rather have as the manager of a team:

A) a technical architect
B) a manager with no technology know-how but only soft skills at his/her disposal.

I am obviously strongly biased towards A) based on my own experience. But i understand and respect the fact that both of you would go for B). It would make for a great study if you guys can find out examples of excellent non-technical managers who successfully led technology projects. I have countless examples of managers in category A).

]]> By: mansoor http://greenwhite.org/blog/2008/05/14/why-manage-when-you-can-code/comment-page-1/#comment-11748 mansoor Mon, 19 May 2008 12:25:44 +0000 http://greenwhite.org/2008/05/14/why-manage-when-you-can-code/#comment-11748 again, never thought i'd say this but Adnan couldn't have put it any better! this is what i was coming to as well, we're talking about managers, not architects. Domain experience and expertise is the domain of architects and analysts. their job is to ensure they can get all the requirements of the customer satisfied by the technological advancements available to them. however, it is not their jobs to manage the customer, manage their expectations, to manage schedule/time/cost triangle and so forth. when we couple both of these tasks onto one person, we get a decrease in productivity, because lets face it.. both of these are jobs which demand specific skillsets which are largely mutually exclusive. again, never thought i’d say this but Adnan couldn’t have put it any better!

this is what i was coming to as well, we’re talking about managers, not architects. Domain experience and expertise is the domain of architects and analysts. their job is to ensure they can get all the requirements of the customer satisfied by the technological advancements available to them. however, it is not their jobs to manage the customer, manage their expectations, to manage schedule/time/cost triangle and so forth.

when we couple both of these tasks onto one person, we get a decrease in productivity, because lets face it.. both of these are jobs which demand specific skillsets which are largely mutually exclusive.

]]> By: Adnan Siddiqi http://greenwhite.org/blog/2008/05/14/why-manage-when-you-can-code/comment-page-1/#comment-11747 Adnan Siddiqi Mon, 19 May 2008 11:30:56 +0000 http://greenwhite.org/2008/05/14/why-manage-when-you-can-code/#comment-11747 <i>as a manager i need to know what REST based web service </i> I believe this is the job of application architect to figure out which technology should be used. It's not PM's headache to decide which technology would be best for certain product. as a manager i need to know what REST based web service

I believe this is the job of application architect to figure out which technology should be used. It’s not PM’s headache to decide which technology would be best for certain product.

]]> By: Yasser http://greenwhite.org/blog/2008/05/14/why-manage-when-you-can-code/comment-page-1/#comment-11740 Yasser Mon, 19 May 2008 06:37:23 +0000 http://greenwhite.org/2008/05/14/why-manage-when-you-can-code/#comment-11740 Knowing and practicing technology dont have to overlap. e.g. If my client wants to build a B2B service, as a manager i need to know what REST based web services do, what are their limitations and alternatives, irrespective of whether i have built a webservice myself or not. This is just my personal opinion but a non-technical manager can not effectively negotiate between the client and the developers if he doesn't know the technology involved. Google is the most successful software company of the last two decades and although it does encourage multi-disciplinary hiring, an absolute passion for the technology involved in creating google's products is one of the key requirements for new candidates. Knowing and practicing technology dont have to overlap. e.g. If my client wants to build a B2B service, as a manager i need to know what REST based web services do, what are their limitations and alternatives, irrespective of whether i have built a webservice myself or not.

This is just my personal opinion but a non-technical manager can not effectively negotiate between the client and the developers if he doesn’t know the technology involved.

Google is the most successful software company of the last two decades and although it does encourage multi-disciplinary hiring, an absolute passion for the technology involved in creating google’s products is one of the key requirements for new candidates.

]]> By: mansoor http://greenwhite.org/blog/2008/05/14/why-manage-when-you-can-code/comment-page-1/#comment-11739 mansoor Mon, 19 May 2008 06:18:29 +0000 http://greenwhite.org/2008/05/14/why-manage-when-you-can-code/#comment-11739 yasser: just one question, you said "For managing technology projects, the manager needs to know the technology inside out irrespective of whether he practices it hands-on or not", tell me, if you have such a valuable resource who knows the technology inside out, wouldn't you rather have them implement that knowledge via coding or via system designing or would you rather have them spend their time 'managing' and thus making them more expensive? one last thing, what exactly it is that technology-versed manager can do that a non-tech versed manager cant? yasser: just one question, you said “For managing technology projects, the manager needs to know the technology inside out irrespective of whether he practices it hands-on or not”,

tell me, if you have such a valuable resource who knows the technology inside out, wouldn’t you rather have them implement that knowledge via coding or via system designing or would you rather have them spend their time ‘managing’ and thus making them more expensive?

one last thing, what exactly it is that technology-versed manager can do that a non-tech versed manager cant?

]]> By: Yasser http://greenwhite.org/blog/2008/05/14/why-manage-when-you-can-code/comment-page-1/#comment-11691 Yasser Fri, 16 May 2008 10:16:55 +0000 http://greenwhite.org/2008/05/14/why-manage-when-you-can-code/#comment-11691 I am all for having management people. The point i was making was that the source of conflict between engineers and managers is NOT that engineers think managers are not important. That is not the case. The dispute arises when the manager thinks he is "above" the team and the engineers think the manager is just playing an auxiliary role so he should not be rewarded more than the engineers. Also i have to disagree with your second observation as well. "People skills" are necessary but not sufficient for being a good manager of technology. HR management is the only place where people skills are necessary and sufficient. For managing technology projects, the manager needs to know the technology inside out irrespective of whether he practices it hands-on or not. I am all for having management people. The point i was making was that the source of conflict between engineers and managers is NOT that engineers think managers are not important. That is not the case. The dispute arises when the manager thinks he is “above” the team and the engineers think the manager is just playing an auxiliary role so he should not be rewarded more than the engineers.

Also i have to disagree with your second observation as well. “People skills” are necessary but not sufficient for being a good manager of technology. HR management is the only place where people skills are necessary and sufficient. For managing technology projects, the manager needs to know the technology inside out irrespective of whether he practices it hands-on or not.

]]> By: mansoor http://greenwhite.org/blog/2008/05/14/why-manage-when-you-can-code/comment-page-1/#comment-11679 mansoor Fri, 16 May 2008 07:25:32 +0000 http://greenwhite.org/2008/05/14/why-manage-when-you-can-code/#comment-11679 yasser: there's no denying that engineers are not important. however, the only venue of concern is, engineers are usually not interested in what a client wants, but rather how can they push the envelope of cutting technology technologies. also, since many engineers are also of high intellect, the comprehension that the general user will require only a few commands, and only those which get their work done instead of a whole bevy of 'cutting edge tools' doesn't sit well with them. this is also an area of mediation where managers can play a role.. and also one reason why i believe atleast one manager should not be from a technical background at a software dev firm but rather from a people background. yasser: there’s no denying that engineers are not important. however, the only venue of concern is, engineers are usually not interested in what a client wants, but rather how can they push the envelope of cutting technology technologies. also, since many engineers are also of high intellect, the comprehension that the general user will require only a few commands, and only those which get their work done instead of a whole bevy of ‘cutting edge tools’ doesn’t sit well with them.

this is also an area of mediation where managers can play a role.. and also one reason why i believe atleast one manager should not be from a technical background at a software dev firm but rather from a people background.

]]> By: Yasser http://greenwhite.org/blog/2008/05/14/why-manage-when-you-can-code/comment-page-1/#comment-11648 Yasser Thu, 15 May 2008 10:33:59 +0000 http://greenwhite.org/2008/05/14/why-manage-when-you-can-code/#comment-11648 Interesting point of view. I dont think anyone denies the need for managing projects, even engineers know it in their hearts of hearts. The real problem arises when the coders/engineers learn that their manager is making significantly more than they are; also when the manager starts thinking that because he is making more, his job is more important than that of the engineers. A proportionate reward system and deserved appreciation of contribution, monetary and otherwise, an take care of the problem. It can also help resist the temptation to become managers that most Pakistani engineers have. In the most simplistic scenario imagine a team of 7 engineers with no manager. Can the team survive? May be! Now imagine a team of 7 managers with no engineer ;-) Interesting point of view. I dont think anyone denies the need for managing projects, even engineers know it in their hearts of hearts. The real problem arises when the coders/engineers learn that their manager is making significantly more than they are; also when the manager starts thinking that because he is making more, his job is more important than that of the engineers. A proportionate reward system and deserved appreciation of contribution, monetary and otherwise, an take care of the problem. It can also help resist the temptation to become managers that most Pakistani engineers have.

In the most simplistic scenario imagine a team of 7 engineers with no manager. Can the team survive? May be! Now imagine a team of 7 managers with no engineer ;-)

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