1. Adnan Ali Said:
   April 21st, 2008 at 3:35 pm

   Ahsan, thanks for the great check list. My questions are:
   Can you add more insight into niche identification?

   While encouraging Pakistani entrepreneurs to engage in eCommerce businesses, do you also encourage them to go for the Pakistani market?

   A lot of people I talk to are looking at the Affiliate business. There are at least three operations in Lahore willing people to start Google Adsense based websites in return for PKR 6K. Do you consider this a stepping stone and learning curve towards a full fledged online business?

2. UFO Said:
   April 21st, 2008 at 3:54 pm

   The solution to any problem is realizing what the problem is.

   Hence i suggest that you say this out loud.

   “There is ZERO ecommerce in Pakistan and a zero possibility in near future. ”

   It is just not something banks and policy enablers are interested in. So dont waste your time here.

   However if you can open and own a bank account abroad then by all means open an e-commerece store and utilize the world 2.0 framework.

   And for heavens sake do not give me the example of CITI Bank and Cyber net or that you can pay your bills online.

   We have not only missed the e-commerce boat but the port altogather.

3. Ahsan Said:
   April 21st, 2008 at 4:32 pm

   Hi Adnan,
   by identifying niche i would suggest the folowing:
   - know your products.
   - Identify the business domain of you products
   - find out what keywords and phrases that rank high in searches and fit you products
   - design/write the content accordingly
   I have had a tremendous response from pakistani market, and for pakistani entrepreneurs pakistani market would be the test case before going globally!
   I strongly recommend affiliate marketing and other useful means for dotcoms but for a content based site, content has to be the king, and thousands of dollars worth affiliate marketing wont help if you cant retain the viewer. i plan to write a series articles on link marketing and affiliates management, watch this space:)
   UFO,
   please take the example of
   shophive.com
   beliscity.com
   myshop.com.pk
   all these portals have a high traffic and they dont use any merchant gateway, and they are making sales how do you think thats possible - dedication towards success - and being street savy!
   Also, i dont know if you have checked out 2checkout.com it allows online signup, payment integration can be done through form posting or api calls and Guess what, they transfer the funds directly to any thaka howa pakistani bank account with in 2 weeks! hows that?
   anyway, this post was for serious enterpreneurs looking for an online solution, yes i agree there are a lot of problems facing us when it comes to ecommerce solution, but should these roadblocks stop us?

4. Ahsan Said:
   April 21st, 2008 at 4:39 pm

   my experience with cyber has been great, but merchant services can only be as good as the underlying banking application and we all know how good is citibank, but UFO, watch this space, my prediction is that cybers going to do a small big bang of sorts to stimulate the ecommerce here:)

5. ReallyVirtual Said:
   April 21st, 2008 at 4:58 pm

   If owning/hosting your platform is not a prerequisite and you start counting freelance service providers “selling” their services on places like elance/rentacoder etc. then UFO’s
   “There is ZERO ecommerce in Pakistan and a zero possibility in near future. ”
   is an absurd exaggeration, as transactions by such service providers surely exceed zero, and probably lie in a few million dollars per annum at least.
   What exactly is a small big bang though?

6. Adnan Ali Said:
   April 21st, 2008 at 8:30 pm

   Ahsan, can you please guide me about Cybernet’s service and your experienced views on using it?

7. Ahsan Said:
   April 21st, 2008 at 10:55 pm

   Adnan,
   if your the idea person, why not discuss it!
   about cyber, i know the team working behind the scene. worked with them closely when integrating shophive payment system, and CITIBANK let us all down. I found the technical team to be efficient knowledge-able and i was really impressed by all of them. as of now they dont have a solution other then the citibank one. and everyone knows this collaboration wont work, and i am just a conspiracy theorist.

   I would suggest 2checkout currently, works for businesses wishing to deal locally. even lets u sell in rupees!

8. Brian Said:
   April 22nd, 2008 at 12:11 am

   If you are in need of a good fulfillment outsourcing company then check us out. We work with e-commerce companies who want to outsource their fulfillment, warehousing, information technology, and customer service. Check us out at www.sbcfulfillment.com

9. Worth Reading BloGsWorth reading BloG « Qasim Ali Khawaja’s Weblog Said:
   April 22nd, 2008 at 8:51 am

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10. shehzad Said:
    April 22nd, 2008 at 10:03 am

    Hi Osama, excellent write up. I would also like to mention for people that do not want to set up their own shop we do have an alternate distribution channels such as lootmaar.com available, then there are payment engines such as http://www.amaana.com/ that make financial transactions easily possible.

    You are right to note that ecommerce hasnt really taken off, i feel that we still do not have the critical mass in terms of internet users in Pakistan to translate efforts into revenue.

11. Worth Reading BloGsWorth reading BloG | Tea Break Said:
    April 22nd, 2008 at 11:11 am

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12. Osama A. Said:
    April 22nd, 2008 at 11:31 am

    Shehzad, it wasnt my writup - notice that there’s lots of authors writing at G&W now.

    You can write too if you’d like

13. UFO Said:
    April 22nd, 2008 at 2:31 pm

    When people die in Ethopia were dying because of a famine they came up with interesting ways to feed themselves. However that does qualify them to be a food sustainable society.

    This is exactly what we are doing in Pakistan.

    People will find ways to do business and make money

    Now, if i want to write a some code and sell for $10/- now tell me where i can do that?

    Talk, getting press coverage and traffic is cheap making $$$ is slightly tough.

    My point is not to underestmate what people can do. But that fact the ecommerce eco system does not exisit.

    The world is full of crazy sucess examples but what the masses need is something slightly average something more realistic something like may be paypal.

    beat that!

14. UFO Said:
    April 22nd, 2008 at 2:36 pm

    also using 2checkout is they to beat the famine not a solution to Pakistan e-commerce system. And Cyber may be great but this is Feb 2008, You have missed the 1990 and you have missed the 2000 decade.

    shophive.com
    beliscity.com
    myshop.com.pk

    These are all good shows but they are examples of ways around how to beat the non-exsistence of e-commerce in Pakistan.

    kinda had to add that.

15. Ahsan Said:
    April 22nd, 2008 at 3:19 pm

    Dear all!
    The idea behind this article was to encourage the audience about selling online based on the following facts
    hosting costs: $50 dollars/anum minimum
    merchant cost: $50 (2co works in pak and is global, authorize.com works in pak as well )

    the means to run an online business is almost free!
    as the open source solution and the template costs range from 0-$50 and if you go for a customized design anything above $500 to $5000

    Also i can site numerous example of freelancers earning through web, established ecommerce sites in carpets/apparel/electronics/print and design making millions while sitting at their corporate head office in ichhra!

    UFO:
    if your saying that running an ecommerce business is impossible in pakistan, then i would have to tell you that your facts are Wrong! and paypal doesnt work in pakistan, nor ethiopia nor in most middle-east and far-east countries.

    myshop/shophive/beliscity all of their buyers and intended buyers are based in pakistan! but thats not what i am suggesting. i know why shophive doesnt go for a merchant solution, but as far as beliscity and myshop. I am sure they dont even know about 2co

    what i am suggesting is that if you wish to sell your services or products the solution is there and the means are there.

    Now lets say you want to sell 3 things
    1, subscription based service at $10
    2, a physical product at $10
    3, a virtual product - ebook at $10

    then you will have to do the following. read the article above. but let me repeat it again for you

    1. register a domain
    2. get hosting
    3. register with 2co - they usually take a week to verify.

    download any of the ecommerce solutions and upload them to your host or get someone do it for you.

    configure it.
    make your privacy, shipping, about us notices (2co wont approve you with out it)

    define all three products in the inventory section.

    and start selling. sitting here in pakistan thats all there is to it. and you’ll get funds in pakistan, while servicing the global market.

    now that remains to be seen whether your products sell or not, but from experience i can tell you if you focus your attention towards packaging your products in a nice bundle that might work. for example you can announce that the physical product and ebook are on 50% discount for subscribed users, you might actually pull it off!

    this article is also intended to create awareness that “ecommerce in Pakistan is impossible” is a Myth

16. UFO Said:
    April 22nd, 2008 at 5:21 pm

    may be i started on the wrong foot.

    I am not saying e-commerce in pakistan is a myth.

    All i am saying is that so far its a work around for a desperate situation here.

    2 Checkout for those who dont know is a private company which holds our money for 15 days to a month, charges minimum of 4.5%+ x dollars + chargeback amount.

    They then n release your money at a set date and charges for wire transfer.

    So while you make CO rich and you may make a bit of money yourself thats does not ignore the fact that you are using a system based out of US (with potential risk to USA patriot act, you need to go and consider litigation pending against paysystems, previously a competitor to 2CO, it is not necessarily a patriot act situation but put good case study)

    Look lootmaar is great except that they dont make any money. And the reason that they dont make any money is they are just a PLATFORM.
    So they wait to be lifed by a potential VC at a latter stage for now they are just a targeted social networking site (which kinda works for Pakista non-exisitant ecommece situation).

    Had they access to a “viable” payment system they would be able to conduct electronic commerce.

    So if you choose 2Checkout remember money control and charge back is not in your hand.

    You cannot do mannual transactions.

    There are many compnaies doing this but Pakistan has nothing to do with it.

    Situation is so bad, that even UBL does not process its own payment remitances sent from US A to PAKISTAN.

    It uses a service and ACH system provided by USA company which first transfers money Net Bank and then to UBL.

    Its a great work around

    But what is happening is many people are taking this for standard e-commerce in Pakistan.

    I agree that on ground alot is happening but you my friend are still cut off from the oppertunity. The brains and efforts in Pakistan are going towards finding 2COs and figuring out how to control your money.

    The sucess of ecommerce depends in my view inthe sucess of the masses. If the masses cannot access it.

    So once again, having a zend cart, hosting and all of that is great

    Ammana is great and is good to wipe the tears off your face(not pointint to anyone) but they have a leg to go. Once service that can potentially make a differnce is UBLs orion but so far they do not offer a Web interface.

    So far PSEB and SBP and regularized banks are worried about critcal mass. Well its the chicken and the egg situation. If the financial instituation wont proivde the infrastructre there will never be the critical mass needed to pull e-commerce in Pakistan.

    In the end all i am saying is call spade a spade.

17. Ahsan Said:
    April 22nd, 2008 at 7:29 pm

    Alright UFO!
    Lets dissect this spade
    I will still advocate having an online ecommerce site with the above mentioned vendors, 2co included
    for that we would have to discuss two different business models!
    1. shophive,myshop,beliscity
    I dont see a single Indigenous product over there. this basically means all these vendors are competing on low profit margins and higher sales count. online bank transfer, payment on delivery. order by phone, manual offline cc transactions through a vending machine would serve their purpose! so online transactions arent encouraged as any transaction of such sort would hover around 3-6 percent per transaction! so if you plan to run a similar business. lets not even discuss a payment solution for this business model. It doesn’t need one, and this close interaction with customers is also one of the reason why they attract so much traffic
    2. If your looking to sell manufactured products, services, softwares, books, music, carpets, apparel you know what profit margins we’re talking about and i dont think an operational cost of 10% (including everything) would hurt any one
    Now Lets analyze this Greenwhite.org and see how can we fit the second model here
    the first time i came here the first think i clicked was the advertise link. and this is what i propose
    - identify the oppertunities
    I see that a lot of folks would be interested in having their ads/banner placed here
    - the advertise page should be able to do the following
    it should allow visitors to buy impressions of the ads, and during this process they should be able to upload their banners, or define their ads, and let them buy impressions with the minimum amount of impression one can buy defined at 1000 impressions. i’ll of course refer 2co here.
    so lets say after 2 months and 200 orders were placed and lets assume again that the charge er 1000 impressions is $5 so the total amount due would be exactly a thousand bucks. 2co percentages hover around 6% and getting it back to pak would cost around 10 dollars. now would you complain if you get $930 for something you dint have to move a muscle, for the past two months! and i wouldnt say $70 for an operational cost is a rip off!
    http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/adserve/
    this plugin would automatically manage the banners, impressions count and reporting
    still not convinced?

18. Muhammad Qasim Pasta Said:
    April 22nd, 2008 at 9:47 pm

    1. don’t restrict you with ‘ Within Pakistan Only’
    2. adopt standards developed for e-commerce trading .. especially PCI Data Security Standard

19. Adnan Ali Said:
    April 22nd, 2008 at 11:57 pm

    Asad, what you have mentioned in your last comment; the ’second’ model, is not e-commerce. It is Content for Ads model.

    I am thinking I agree with what unidentified flying object is saying.

20. Ahsan Said:
    April 23rd, 2008 at 12:51 am

    well i guess we’ll have to wait for the small big bang then

21. UFO Said:
    April 23rd, 2008 at 3:13 pm

    Ahsan, making money is fine. But i think instead of writing about how we can sell on the internet with these make shift arrangements we should be writing about how to shake what to get the ball rolling on e-commerce in Pakistan.

    There is huge potential.

    Imagine what could $10 do for kid in Intermediate by just write a creative article and selling that.

    Imagine what could it do for the net crazy freelancers.

    Imagine what this could evolve in.

    BTW i manage this new site http://tazakino.com
    lemme know how you like it.

22. Syed Ahsan Iqbal Said:
    April 25th, 2008 at 11:33 pm

    hey guys!
    yeah all your points are valid it just that when u focus towards pakistani market, yes all these factors weigh down on business viability, but i started of by identifying the billion dollar buyer market which is internet and primarily driven through search engines!

    I plan to present a case study to further strengthen my arguments but will focus on more edible topics , in the next Posts.

    UFO. kickass site and idea, btw i am a huge fan of geeklog.

23. farzal Said:
    April 26th, 2008 at 6:38 pm

    Please contact amaana@amaana.com to see how amaana set of APIs can help E-Commerce site with some of the steps identified above.

    Thanks for this article. I teach E-Commerce @ IBA. I wish I would have simplified this for my students the way you did.

24. Ejaz Asi Said:
    April 27th, 2008 at 9:48 am

    I was quite excited by the title of the post when it showed up in my inbox (subscribed email newsletter) and I gave myself some free time to read it only to be hugely disappointed.

    Now most of the readers of G&W are Internet/Software professionals but to actually give out short list of “Resources” instead of real “check list” for an ecommerce store is mind-boggling. Not only the title is misleading (as it should have been Resources for ecommerce…) but it also falls very short on making a sound argument why one should choose certain Resource (2CO, certain good-for-nothing pakistani hosts etc.) in the list…
    The most ludicrous thing came from the same author in one of his comments when he proudly bragged (just see that wink) that Beliscity and Myshop.com.pk guys don’t even know about 2CO. What a shame!

    I know there’re people who have less knowledge and understanding of things you may have but there’re always people and esp. the next generation who’d hold you responsible for what you did not for what you had.

    A separate, dedicated blog can easily be started on the very list Mr. Ahsan has pointed out. 2CO and Authorize.Net have their Pros and Cons but to say “tick either Authorize.net or 2Co or Citibank” is highly disappointing and well a typical scenario where university grad students are handed out certain course/syllabus which they never knew before hand comprises what nor giving them enough options to choose from.

    It’s highly biased and non-serious article/post where the author showcases mere “Resource List” which further one doubts as he writes “RANKED ranked in terms of online implementations” What does that suppose to mean?

    The author makes fun of all the service industry professionals including myself and I could tell it’s very bad when it’s done at G&W platform, which I was hoping would be an interesting place where I’d get to know more about local industry’s woes and issues and ideas. By only mentioning Google Analytics in one of the most profoudnly important departments/segments of WebSite Administration and not even writing for once that these are only “suggestions” as they should have been, is a mockery of such a huge and important (might I add extremely overlooked and downplayed) are of cyber world and internet technologies.

    I was flabbergasted by seeing no mention of Online and Offline Marketing and certain steps (actual Checklist instead of some real resouces with emphatic certainty of their use and efficiency) required as well.
    Of course my biggest disappointment was to see the same missing points which are most profoundly building blocks of identifying who’s XYZ and who’s ABC at the cyberworld. And no, it’s got nothing to do with WordPresses or Xcarts or 2COs or even OSCommerces of the world but the knowledge and understanding of important User-Experience fundamentals and Usability principles. Every one can have a goddamned Wordpress 2.0 or 2.5 installed in a jiffy or OSCommerce or a shophive or a beliscity but what it takes G&W and ShopHive and Beliscity et al. to differtiate and make themselves proud winners in their respective industries and niches is not the app but the acute understanding of its target audience, competency to use its tools well to optimize for the said audeience and serve them a unique optimum User Experience e.g. whether G&W should have its author’s name at the bottom of the post or at the start of the post? should ShopHive really have tiny, unimginative Checkout buttons sitting in obscurity or should they be treated differently? Should Beliscity offer a highly technical tool of Signup/Login to a new/returning customer at the start of their homepage or should they let its users BUY and SHOP without disturbing?

    Ironically the most amusing and thoughtful commentary came from the most cynical person in the discussion - UFO. Thanks mate for challenging our “mainstream” thought processes and to force readers to think more than what meets the eye.

    P.S. I didn’t intend to be scornful or personal in my rant, I hardly know anyone here anyway but I thought this post could have been revised and discussed with the editor of G&W, as practised in any sane and respected publication before hitting the masses.

25. Osama A. Said:
    April 27th, 2008 at 12:34 pm

    Ejaz,

    Thanks for adding your comments - those are some good points.

    Stay tuned you should see something from us soon for usability discussions.

26. Syed Ahsan Iqbal Said:
    April 27th, 2008 at 4:12 pm

    Hi All
    the reason I contributed this article at GW was to give a head start to anyone who wishes to start an e-business in Pakistan, another reason was since GW is the dwelling place of the leading industry experts, I would be fortunate enough to have them share their experiences in starting up an ecommerce store in Pakistan and hence this thread can become somewhat of a rough guide for anyone who wishes to start ecommerce.

    This article is in no way is a bible for ecommerce stores, its just my experience of having developed more than 20 ecommerce based sites over the years, and I can just add weight to the argument by claiming/boasting of $100,000 revenue generation from online sales from the sites managed by my company during last year.

    It’s a norm, to criticize for the sake of criticism, but I would appreciate and am hopeful if the learned audience provides me with some solutions or alternate solutions to my checklist. Because we all are experts here we don’t need a checklist, but in case someone really wants one, what would you suggest?

    I hear a lot of mentions of beliscity, myshop and shophive here, would it change any opinion if I tell you that beliscity is running on oscommerce, myshop is running on zen-cart and lastly shophive was architected and developed under the supervision of yours truly, i rate the shophive application high, but at that time had i gone with oscommerce i would have saved 6 months of development time and cost, and I hope the audience learns from my mistakes.

    Ejaz, excellent point about online and offline marketing but I think it should be explained in details with managing an online store because I think that getting the ecommerce site up from scratch is the first step to anything that comes in this huge online world

27. Ejaz Asi Said:
    April 27th, 2008 at 4:51 pm

    Ahsan, Yes I am aware of the fact that you own ShopHive and precisely because of that your otherwise casual remark “beliscity and others may not even know 2CO” was very unprofessional and undignified too.

    Now, you’re missing one big point. If it’s a checklist for ecommerce website on a community oriented blog, people expect a real regular checklist of “All the items which are required to setup an online store”. Mentioning 2CO or OSCommerce or other proprietary software doesn’t necessarily mean that “these are ALL the items one would require…” The decent job you could have done after the list was to mention that these are your personal PREFERENCES. Now you may have made Millions of dollars off of one single ecommerce venture out of dozens you say you have managed but that fact is useless since it’s very preferential thing when it comes to choosing between services and applications. Given the fact Microsoft makes more profits and sales than most of the industry players doesn’t EXACTLY translate into “World’s Most Useful Applications” now does it?

    I have nothing against the list actually. Like I said I have nothing to gain here personally and I didn’t mean to rebuke personally but this “topic” of eCommerce COULD HAVE been dealt with a little more serious and responsible approach. I think I can refer to almost no one, not a layman much less someone knowledgeable to this article for any new insights or resources.

    Oh, btw, I really want to drop this thing now without irritating other people but I am willing to go into a discussion as to why you think Open Source software have or may have better usability as mentioned in your article. But perhaps some other time and/or post?

28. Syed Ahsan Iqbal Said:
    April 27th, 2008 at 5:08 pm

    Agreed, Ejaz.
    by the way, never did i mention i own shophive, neither does my company. i was a founding member and managed the design and implementation. and shophive is definately not managed by us.

    hope to see your valued opinion on the said subject on this space.

29. Muhammad Younas Said:
    April 27th, 2008 at 8:54 pm

    Ahsan,

    Great post and a very useful one.

30. Yusuf Said:
    May 2nd, 2008 at 11:41 pm

    Believe UFO raised the point somewhere in there about discussing what it would take to kick start eCommerce in Pakistan. Can UFO, Ejaz, Ahsan or someone else take a stab at that?

    Here are a couple of my observations:

    1. eCommerce in Pakistan is of the order of USD 10 mil (I believe, source AFACT) while it should be maybe a hundred times more given the number of Internet Users and discounted for disposable income. I hypothesize that the reason it has not risen to its potential level is because Pakistani online users cannot use Pakistani bank issued credit cards to purchase products and services (except from I believe 17 Citibank merchant bankers).

    2. Two reasons have been put forth for there being only 17 merchant accounts in Pakistan: a) fear of fraud, b) lack of vision among banks who view credit cards as loan mechanisms as most users use credit cards in Pakistan to draw out cash rather than transact non-cash transactions.

    So could one say that if an insurance company could underwrite every online transaction and a bank could be sold, then that would boost eCommerce in Pakistan?

    There is considerable SWAG and speculation in what I write above and would be interested in what others think.

    Thanks

    Yusuf

31. Syed Ahsan Iqbal Said:
    May 3rd, 2008 at 1:08 pm

    Excellent Point Yusuf.
    i think the void of a good emerchant in Pakistan is the major reason ecommerce dint shoot up here like everywhere else. Although all major cards master/visa/Amex issued in pakistan now do work online with most emerchants except for paypal.
    i think amaana and ubl wallet can really do well if they step up to the wap/web based demands

32. Yusuf Said:
    May 3rd, 2008 at 4:38 pm

    Ahsan,
    Do any of the three sites you mention in your article i.e. beliscity, myshop and shophive, have Internet Merchant accounts?

    Second, how can we surge Internet Merchant Accounts in Pakistan by two or three orders of magnitude?

    That may be the crux of the challenge?

    Thanks

    Yusuf

33. smunir Said:
    May 3rd, 2008 at 8:04 pm

    Yusuf and rest of the crew, I’ll like to share a horror story. Please feel free to comment:

    http://www.salmanmunir.com/2007/10/19/devil-and-the-deep-blue-sea/

34. Yusuf Said:
    May 3rd, 2008 at 9:15 pm

    Smunir, I guess this is the reason why so few merchant accounts operate in Pakistan. But what is the path forward to surge the number of merchants:
    a) A stronger cyber-crime investigation capability
    b) An insurance company willing to insure both the bank and the merchant against fraud
    c) amana etc.
    Any thoughts anyone?

35. Syed Ahsan Iqbal Said:
    May 3rd, 2008 at 11:01 pm

    Yusuf,
    in case of online merchant account most international vendors provide useful measures to minimize fraudulent use of credit card while citibank system lack of sophistication led to major losses incurred by shophive and months after the orders were delivered citibank did what salman just told you.
    this is why i have been preaching for 2co. this is what they say on this subject.
    http://www.2checkout.com/community/blog/knowledge-base/fraud-bank-assisted-disputes-chargebacks/fraud-mitigation/

36. Yusuf Said:
    May 5th, 2008 at 8:20 pm

    Ahsan,
    Thanks for that URL — very useful!
    Looks like 2CO is charging 5.5% + USD 0.45 per transaction and USD 10 for transferring payments. With holding periods upwards of 2 weeks.
    That is quite steep - nevertheless — the fact that the service is available is important.
    One thought though: The article reference you provided above discusses the fraud risk mitigation approach of 2CO and like you said it is probably much better than Citibank. However the actual risk is passed on to the merchant as the merchant is liable for fraud related chargebacks. So the key question is: What has 2CO’s actual track record been in Pakistan (i.e. with respect to purchases made from Pakistan) in terms of limiting fraud related charge backs? Have fraud related charge backs been less than 1% of revenue — an acceptable level as described by 2CO itself.
    Thanks
    Yusuf

37. Ejaz Asi Said:
    May 5th, 2008 at 8:34 pm

    I don’t say that 2CO is the best merchant-related solution out there but It’s pretty relevant and useful in many situations and business models (primarily small to mid size).
    2CO had diligently worked to counter fraudulent transacations ORIGINATING from Pakistan and you could say that their (alongwith many industry vendors/ASPs) systems are pretty effective. However, minor issues have occurred but mostly in genuine cases, contrary to fraudulent cases (wrt: more security less functionality) but overall Internaitonal merchants have been more profitable, more responsive and more efficient in many businesses I have had experience of.

    Also, I don’t understand that despite our understanding and knowledge of local banks/government’s infrastructure and their commitment level, why don’t we just dump them for good untill they respond more professionally. I know much like PIE and other infrastructure related solutions, local merchant accounts would expedite business activity but let’s face it: Getting a serious Web Hosting and Merchant Account from Pakistan DOES NOT make any sense at this moment.

38. Syed Ahsan Iqbal Said:
    May 5th, 2008 at 8:36 pm

    Excellent Point Yusuf,
    Let me just add a few things , when the fraud is detected with in 24-72 hours then your not losing much as you can hold the delivery till the payment is cleared. works fine. in case of citibank the charge back was on products ordered months back so that resulted in huge losses.

    2co in all its costliness is still cheaper then citibank. i do like the insurance idea but in a web platform most efforts are focussed on ease of customer and a vendor based insurance provided by the merchant is an awesome idea and it takes care of the headaches. Also I can assure you that with a good merchant you can minimize the fraudulent transactions to a zero.

39. Yusuf Said:
    May 5th, 2008 at 10:02 pm

    Ahsan, You said that a good merchant can minimize fraudulent transactions to zero. How can they do this while ensuring customer convenience?

    Second, you mentioned that Citibank costs more. Do you know how much more?

    Ejaz, you mentioned that 2CO is not necessarily the best online payment solution provider; then can you tell us who are the other providers, other than 2CO, that Pakistani online merchants should consider?

40. Ejaz Asi Said:
    May 5th, 2008 at 10:26 pm

    In my study and understanding, many pakistani startups (small-midsized - read all aforementioned are to be considered midsized including emarkaz, libertybooks and forthcoming Dawn bazar) could opt for any of the following: (random order - no preference)

    Authorize.net
    CCBill
    2CO
    Verisign
    iBill
    WorldPay *works great for UK bank/audience*
    PayPal *also works great if your product ships worldwide*

    Now there’re two fundamentally very important and often-neglected points:
    1- Which one’s better in all of these services require serious considerations of your own business model, audience, shipping/banking facilities and coverage and yes a professional consultant (something unfortunately in Pakistan not many people know of or can’t afford)

    2- aforementioned are NOT Merchant Accounts. They’re merely CC Gateways.

    One of my foremost grievances with the post/author is that it intentionally/unintentionally make people believe that Setting up an eCommerce website is as easy as 123 while it would be in true in some cases it downplays many important areas most importantly a professional consultancy and a thorough research/marketing plan. No wonder consultancy still is very under-rated and incompetent area in Pakistan’s tiny service industry.

    People pay hundreds of dollars for research and market data in this industry just like any other industry, pay huge fees to SEOs, User Experience specialists, Interaction Designers and so on. CMS Watch issued its 2008 report which compares and analyse top dozen open source and proprietary CMSes at a price of no less than 1000$. I hope this country starts appreciating value of knowledge and other forms of learning and education soon.

41. Syed Ahsan Iqbal Said:
    May 5th, 2008 at 11:31 pm

    Yusuf,
    Usually the order it self,the source of origin, whether your able to contact the customer via phone and get a verbal confirmation would give you enough info about the credibility of the order. and if your suspicious you can contact your merchant, dont ship unless you get a transaction confirmation and it doesn’t more then 24-72 hours in most cases.

    about citibank merchant costs?
    when we got the merchant, the application took a year to process. initial cost was around 80,000 with 3.5 % Plus 8 rupee on all transactions. there was an annual fee too of around 25k-35k as well.

    Ejaz.
    Setting up an ecommerce site is no childs play, but its no rocket science either. You have to concede that there isnt a web vendor in Pakistan who can compete with the above mentioned Open source products. I have seen cases when a customized developed ecommerce application turned out to be an oscommerce clone and in worst cases a static website posting data to cc payment merchant. there have also been cases when we dumped the old clients application and built a new one.

    Yes I agree, not just ecommerce stores but all online businesses need research, marketing plans, but i don’t think the costs associated with it would make the products on the website viable to sell and i believe all online entrepreneurs should be on top of the seo/research/marketing endeavors. this also helps in the maximum output should he wishes to engage a professional consultacy.

42. Yusuf Said:
    May 6th, 2008 at 2:39 am

    Ejaz,

    You list PayPal, but that is not available in Pakistan and so is not available to Pakistani merchants. My question was which are the payment vendors that Pakistani merchants can consider. Please clarify if I am missing something here and if the payment solutions you list support Pakistani merchants.

    I agree that consulting is very important and I think its importance is beginning to be appreciated by some of the larger corporate players in Pakistan.

    Ahsan and Ejaz,
    With respect to consulting, I wanted to ask both of you if you provide consultancy and if so I would appreciate your or your company URL or emails.

    Thanks

    Yusuf

43. Ejaz Asi Said:
    May 6th, 2008 at 11:33 am

    If you have an overseas/US/UK based bank account, you could have Paypal and start accepting credit cards transactions as well as PayPal payments. People in Pakistan can also pay through PayPal as it accepts major credit cards as well. If you have a relative/friend whose bank account you could use, that should work. Again, it depends largely on your business model, financial strength and so on.

    I have worked with eCommerce shops both based in Pakistan and outside in terms of Visual Design, Interaction Design and overall User-Experience. You could reach me at ejazasi at gmail.com to discuss further. But you can have an idea from my comments that processes I use and advocate are lengthier, cover more aspects of web design and pricier sometimes too.

44. Syed Ahsan Iqbal Said:
    May 6th, 2008 at 4:27 pm

    Yusuf,
    This is a good forum for those who wish to run an online business of some sort, as you can see we have distinguished bloggers, multiple dotcom/online business owners and successful entrepreneurs sharing their vision and experience on successful online ventures. Please take time to go through the pak-startup section as there are a lot of inspiration as well as lessons to be learnt from there. You can also pose your specific queries here and you’ll get interesting insights.

    My company URL is in the article and you can contact me at ahsan at radical.com.pk. and good luck with your venture

45. Syed Ahsan Iqbal Said:
    May 6th, 2008 at 4:34 pm

    Ejaz,
    Paypal wont be a good choice for a Pakistan based vendor, Pakistani ips are blocked to access the restricted areas, i even had use the clients machine in US remotely to access the paypal area when were integrating the website payment pro module, definitely not recommended.

46. Ejaz Asi Said:
    May 6th, 2008 at 4:46 pm

    Paypal has better recognition and credibility than most of the smaller-names excluding Verisign. I, as a customer, have shopped couple of times and even recently through a site who uses PayPal and it worked like charm.
    Pakistani businesses want to ship or bill overseas customers can look into PayPal as an additional payment service as well. Even though few issues might be there but it’s not that PayPal is altogether unviable an option.

    Also, I have seen few artists here using Escrow and MoneyBookers which may not be as popular and bigger as PayPal but good alternatives.
    Except Citi/Cyber there are many solutions which would be suitable to many retailers/vendors here. I may be overly harsh or critical but I’d never go for a Pakistani host or credit card gateway from Pakistan until a good no. of solution providers are there.

47. Syed Ahsan Iqbal Said:
    May 7th, 2008 at 9:38 pm

    a very useful article and a must read.
    ecommerce-guide.com/solutions/building/article.php/3736936

48. Your Privacy is an Illusion - Sohaib Athar Said:
    May 7th, 2008 at 9:55 pm

    […] the bright side, incidents like this make one think that perhaps the lack of ecommerce in Pakistan is actually a blessing in disguise. What do you […]

49. aamir attaa Said:
    May 14th, 2008 at 11:20 pm

    e commerce is practically impossible in Pakistan. You are left with very little options, that is to set up for shopping cart that is compatible with only local banks.

    I personally spoke to almost every bank operating in Pakistan, HSBC, CitiBank, UBL, Bank Al Falah etc…but no one offers you a merchant account for e-commerce specifically for credit card processing. That means, if i setup an online store, i have no solution (while remaining in Pakistan) to fetch my sales money into my bank account.

    Only solution they told was to open an bank account in foreign country, where they offer e commerce merchant accounts. And you all know well that its illegal to operate a bank account while you not resident of that particular country.

50. Syed Ahsan Iqbal Said:
    May 15th, 2008 at 8:30 pm

    Thats not correct aamir, you would have to look at banks/vendors out of country providing all the credit transfer facilities, i have mentioned a couple of solutions which actually works.

51. aamir attaa Said:
    May 15th, 2008 at 9:19 pm

    ahan…thanks for info, yea i know http://www.ebanyan.com providing such services. But our local banks should introduce e commerce enabled solutions as well. Not every one has access to such abroad resources.

52. nauman Said:
    May 18th, 2008 at 8:03 pm

    hi guys

    seems to me like beliscity.com has abandoned shop cos i have been trying to contact them for a week now to get some products but no response on anything, telephone or email alike. Anyone know why?

53. Syed Ahsan Iqbal Said:
    May 19th, 2008 at 1:48 pm

    yeah i heard similar rumors nauman! theres something definitely going on at beliscity.

54. mansoor Said:
    May 19th, 2008 at 9:43 pm

    one question..

    when ecommerce was being taken up in the states, i remember people could ask for credit card number and expiry dates, and then manually have them processed by the banks.

    most of the CC machine’s i’ve seen in Pakistan have an option of keying in a card’s number, in addition to swiping it (a status which comes printed on the receipt either as ‘SWIPED’ or ‘KEYED’).

    A merchant doesn’t get the money unless they submit the receipts to the bank for reconcilation. during that time, if a customer reports an error, the case is looked into and if true, the payment is reversed.

    the way it is setup, a merchant, looking to create a business has to follow the professional ethics of running it.

    i agree in pak, trust is in short supply, and so are unscuplous people who would take away your money, but CC machines are issued only to vendors who are certified by the banks… so that does create a level of trust.

    in short, why not introduce a service to manually process CC numbers until we get the facility to have it done automatically?

55. azam Said:
    June 25th, 2008 at 1:15 pm

    dear
    i like link online sale my product
    any body pay me by card(visa ,ect)that come to my bank A/c.can you hel me this

    azam

56. aamir attaa Said:
    June 25th, 2008 at 1:20 pm

    Azam please leave your contact details on aamir7@gmail.com, i may help you…

    Thanks

57. SEM Pune Said:
    June 26th, 2008 at 2:22 pm

    Good post…quite an interesting comment.

58. Usman Said:
    August 9th, 2008 at 1:47 am

    I was interested in online business about three years ago but gave up after finding out the impossibility of online business in Pakistan.
    Now after three years, there has been no improvement at all, only rumours just like they were three years ago (Like paypal or others soon to allow Pakistan ). The worst thing I just found out is that Paypal is now allowing sending money to 190 countries but still not to Pakistan.
    Is Pakistan so bad for e-commerce?

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